| "No country has no corruption. The problem is - and let's face it - that the poorer countries in the world, and particularly the poor can least afford this corruption." |
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Daniel Kaufmann, World Bank
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Whether it's poor infrastructure, disease, drought, lack of security, or anything else that might be a target of development - efforts to solve these problems can be frustrated by corruption.
Read listeners' comments on this topic
Development institutions, like the World Bank, have long recognised that problems will not be solved by money alone, if the recipients of the money divert it into their own bank accounts.
Fears of this kind have been used to argue against giving aid to countries that are perceived as corrupt, out of concern that the money will be wasted.
This week's Amsterdam Forum investigated the problem, and heard persuasive arguments that through careful monitoring and auditing, it is possible to ensure development funds are used properly.
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| Click to listen to the debate on the problem of corruption | |
The panellists
Daniel Kaufmann - Director of Global Programmes and Governance, World Bank Institute
Tajudeen Abdul-Raheem - General Secretary of the Global Pan African Movement, based in Kampala, Uganda
Joop de Wit - Senior Lecturer in Public Policy and Development Management, Institute of Social Studies, in the Hague, the Netherlands
Extracts from the debate:
Daniel Kaufmann on the benefits of rooting out corruption:
"Any country that is highly corrupt, if it were to become less corrupt - they would not solve the problem overnight, but to improve in a significant way, and have a lower level of corruption - they can expect to triple their income per capita."
Daniel Kaufmann on the mistakes made in lending money to corrupt regimes:
"The international community including the World Bank has made mistakes in too blindly providing funding, and too exclusively to central government and to leaders which sometimes have been corrupt, and those moneys have been siphoned off … That has to stop, and by and large has been stopped."
"But there are many other ways of helping a country: at the decentralised local level, at the village level … working more with NGOs, working with the private sector - so there are always alternatives [which allow us to] keep engaged and help the poor, without necessarily always thinking that one has to go through the central governing authorities if there is significant corruption."
Tajudeen Abdul-Raheem's example of a country not using its resources wisely:
"Ethiopia is ranked as one of the poorest countries in the world … But some how, Ethiopia has enough resources to go and occupy Somalia!"
Tajudeen Abdul-Raheem on the importance of political accountability:
"For me, the issue is not about accountability for donor funds. If you take a country like Kenya, aid money is about 5% of the national budget - or a country like Nigeria, South Africa, Botswana, the aid component of the national budget is not that great … It's about our political leaders being accountable to our people for taxpayers' money or resources deriving from that country which they are presiding over."
"Yes there is corruption in Italy, and there is corruption in a number of rich OECD countries, no country has no corruption. The problem is - and let's face it - that the poorer countries in the world, and particularly the poor can least afford this corruption. So the impact of corruption is much more dire. Corruption and bribery are a major tax on the poor."
Daniel Kaufmann on how to penalise the companies that give bribes:
"One of the things that we have done in the World Bank … is publicly disclosed de-listing of any enterprise that has been found to be involved in corruption, in any project which has had some funding by the World Bank … It's an enormous reputational cost. Many of these countries go under because nobody else will touch them."
Joop de Wit on the persistent nature of corruption:
"In many countries corruption is systematic, its endemic. You need to actually be bribing someone to get something. It's based on tradition and on historical patterns."
Joop de Wit on the need to empower the poor:
"I'm worried that the strategies that even the World Bank is doing … are helpful, they are important, they keep everyone sharp, but it may not be enough. We need to address also deeper issues … poverty, inequality, and strengthening the poor so that they can hold accountable the institutions."
Daniel Kaufmann on how to promote honest behaviour:
"The whole aspect of education in this issue, and of values, is absolutely crucial - but up to age 12. Maybe 15. … Beyond age 18, it's incentives … the set of incentives within our institutions, within our countries, the example set by our leaders, and whether the rule of law is working or not."
A selection of your emails:
Jasmin, India
"People are corrupt because they choose to be, their social or economic status has no effect on their choice. Much also depends upon the moral values [they receive] from the family, schooling and social upbringing. In an institution, much depends upon the moral values of the boss as his values percolate to the grass-root levels. Still, corrupt institutions do have honest employees as well."
"I remember as a newly employed officer my honesty was labelled as a matter of circumstances by my corrupt colleagues, but I have proved them wrong over the years as it is a matter of my choice."
"We need our children to have good moral values and a belief that 'honesty is still the best policy'. Then nothing can shake them from their honesty."
David, Ireland
"When the development is done in a top-down fashion it seems more likely to attract some level of corruption, as opposed to a participatory manner where genuine grass-root networks have little room for corruption."
Jude, Vancouver, Canada
"Freedom of information, and the media in particular, is surely central to reigning in corruption. I fear China can never make the leap to a developed nation until it ends censorship for example. I know the World Bank has done good work monitoring how loans are spent, but I wonder if it could attach conditions regarding press freedom to loans?"
Vera, British Columbia, Canada
"The World Bank fighting corruption? Isn't it more the case of who is calling the kettle black?"
Tags: Amsterdam Forum, bribery, corruption, development, World Bank
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