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Seeing the light? Study links religion and societal ills |
Well, a new study from the US says not necessarily so.
The broad ranging study compares data from 18 developed democracies and it shows societies with higher levels of belief also have higher levels of societal dysfunction.
The US was the most religious country in the study, with around 90 percent of people believing in a higher power, and it also showed the highest murder rates, highest levels of child mortality and highest levels of sexually transmitted disease and teenage pregnancy.
An expert panel joined Amsterdam Forum this week to tackle the question: "Is religion bad for society?"
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The panellists:
Gregory Paul, the man behind the study, which was published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic publication. Best known as a leading international expert on dinosaur palaeontology, he turned his hand to social science to conduct the study.
Bert Dorenbos, a campaigning Christian who runs the Dutch pro-life group Schreeuw om Leven (Cry for Life)
And Professor Peter Derkx from the University for Humanistics in Utrecht. He's Professor of Humanism and Worldviews.
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Key Quotes:
Gregory Paul on the study's findings:
"There are always some exceptions, but in general the pattern is: if religion really was necessary and disbelief in God was a serious problem, you'd expect the most secular societies to have the highest rates of societal difficulties - if anything, the reverse is true."
"If you look at all the secular democracies, and in some secular democracies absolute belief in God is down to just a few percent, they're historically reaching unprecedented low rates of murder, low juvenile mortality, long life spans and low rates of STD transmission and abortion and so on. So it's the secular democracies that are doing the best."
Bert Dorenbos on Gregory Paul's study:
"I can also mention other recent studies which explain an explosive booming of Christianity in many parts of the world. For example, in Latin America there's an unbelievable growth of the church - I remember a prison warder there saying, 'okay I've closed the prison down because there's no murder anymore because so many people are turning to Jesus.' Where Jesus comes into society, people change."
Gregory Paul on the US coming out the worst of all in the study:
"The United States is number one in many many categories of societal dysfunction. We have a shockingly high murder rate in this country, far higher than any other developed democracy, we have obscene juvenile mortality rates, twice as high as some of the other developed democracies, we have unusually high abortion rates and unusually high teen pregnancy rates."
Peter Derkx on religion as a problem for society:
"I don't think religion in itself is the problem I think a particular type of religion is the problem and I would say an absolute belief in God is closer to what I think is a problem. I think that God as an authority figure causes people not to think for themselves critically and rationally and intelligently, and I think it's very important when people meet problems in life that they think about what they want and what the best thing to do is, etcetera, instead of looking to some authority figure who tells then what to do."
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Condoms: religious right campaigns against them
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"The higher the rate of belief in God, the higher the rate of abortion."
Bert Dorenbos on religion and abortion:
"It's very sad to say, and it's a very bad situation there, especially in the African-American communities, there's a very high abortion rate and that has to do with a very bad attitude of the so-called Planned Parenthood Association which promotes abortion in this part of society."
"It also has to do with religion, because when you see religion becoming liberal then you see that morals also become liberal and then you enter the arena of abortion and all the other evil aspects of life. So, you can't bypass religion."
Gregory Paul on why he thinks abortion rates are high in US:
"Basically, in this country we have - very commonly - abstinence-only sex education, which is rightwing-based and it says to kids: don't have any sex until you are married and it says condoms don't work. Every major study shows this does not work; it backfires, because these kids do have sex and they don't know how to use condoms, they get pregnant and they have abortions."
"In Europe, teen sex is considered acceptable and moral, kids are taught to use condoms and it is working - this is how you practically bring down these problems."
Gregory Paul on the Bible as a moral guide:
"The Bible is whatever you want to make it, there are passages where God orders his followers to kill children, to mass murder children - this happens repeatedly. We need to start looking at whether the Bible is really a good moral guide. It's a very dark book, in many ways, written by ancient tribal peoples, who in many regards didn't know any better. This may be one of the reasons why the United States, which is more Bible-based than any other developed democracy, is suffering from some many societal problems."
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Teen mum:
high rates of belief mean higher rates of teen pregnancy, says study |
Peter Derkx on religious arrogance:
"Some people treat religion as something they have in their pocket, they know exactly what God thinks, what God wants and I think this type of arrogance is very dangerous."
Gregory Paul on why a dinosaur expert has produced such a report:
"One of the things that bothers me is: why am I the first person to do this kind of work? I'm a dinosaur palaeontologist and evolutionary scientist this is an important issue that people haven't really been looking at, so I stepped into the breach here."
"I am a scientist, I am a researcher, I published in a peer reviewed academic journal, and it's an excellent study and it tells us a lot of things we hadn't known before."
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A selection of the emails you sent us on the question 'is religion bad for society?'
Robin Outhouse, United States (Texas): "Religion is bad for society when the churches fail to teach about God. Most people don't have a clue about how great God really is. God made us perfectly, but we don't believe it. We're not good enough, we're not pretty enough, we're too fat, we're too poor, etc, etc. We believe what we hear and what we are told. It begins at a very early age. Hell is believing these lies and not realizing what God has given us"
Warren Lee, Vancouver, Canada: "Religions are not bad for society. Most of the time, they promote things like 'love thy neighbour' and 'thou shalt not commit murder.' But, they also promote close-mindedness and bigotry. Anything that is against their way of thinking is viewed as making society worse off. (Gay marriage, Intelligent Design vs. theory of evolution, or role of women in Islam). I am willing to change if the facts show that my views on a subject are wrong. So, why are religions so afraid and resistant to change?"
JK, Colorado, US: "Please stop generalizing and identifying all forms of belief with that crock of evangelical, fundamentalist, simplistic boneheads. Religion isn't evil, finger pointers are."
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Moved by faith - believer on the streets
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Diamond Sutherland, United States of America: "I completely agree that we have the most dysfunctional society. Anyone who needs to believe there is something more than them has no control over their own lives. We should be beyond believing in Gods by now. Gods were created because the early humans had no control over what was going on around them. We have control. Yet for some reason the Christian right believes we do not. Someone please throw a science book at these people."
Brittany, USA: "I don't think that religion is the problem, but the illusion of invincibility that makes my fellow Americans get into so much trouble. Naturally, people fear that which is different from them, and with so many different types of people living so close together, added in with an elitist view from all sides, it causes conflict. Religion is only one thing to argue about, and very rarely does a (stereotypical) American submit to the opinions of another."
David Davies, Swansea, South Wales, UK: "Humanism is proving to be the greatest threat to world peace and instability amongst the nations because of greed, a-morality, a lack of vision for the future and gross corruption in governments globally. The only answer is true Christianity and global prayer in and through The Lord Jesus Christ."
Robert Kurt, Oak Ridge, Tennessee: "The separation of church and state is important. Today, the climate has changed in the United States. The so-called Christians from the extreme right have always been there, but this is the first time they have been in the White House."
Nate, Wisonsin, United States: "Do you know what else is distinct about America? It's a long list. To say it's Christianity is just ignorance. I think it has a lot more to do with the egos of Americans, and our popular culture (not religion) breeds and supports it. Can you come up with a theoretical link between Christianity and such an increase in crime?"
William Toll, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA: "Yes, religion is bad for society. Science has and will eventually explain everything."
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Cliff Prosser, Birmingham, Alabama, USA: "I agree that 'religion' per se can be harmful to a society (consider examples we've all seen of atrocities carried out in sake of a dogmatic religious view.) But religion isn't the issue . . . faith is the issue. The Bible itself is replete with examples of religiosity that has no real substance. For example, the Pharisees of old who held great religious stature but gained no favour with God because they were self absorbed, intellectual and arrogant. Religion is not the answer. A true, deep, abiding belief and faith in a sovereign God and the blood of the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb (Jesus Christ) that He provided is the answer. I've been in 'religion' all my life as a matter of practice and moral discipline, but nothing in my life changed until I surrendered myself to God. Religion doesn't change lives for the better, a just and loving God does."
Neil, USA: "This is a great example of poor statistical analysis. Even if both statistics are true - high belief rate, high whatever rate - without substantial evidence that there is a connection all you are doing is showing your bias."
"Here is another example: Fact: Here in America we eat more ice-cream in July than any other month. Fact: Here in America there are more rapes committed in July than any other month. Conclusion: Eating ice cream causes rape. This is the kind of shoddy statistical analysis your report depends on."
Firdaus Kembara, Indonesia: "Religions have made Indonesia worse as the religions have been used since the era of authoritarian Suharto by the Indonesian military and police to divide Muslims and Christians especially in the provinces where the composition of the number of the populations are almost 50-50 percent."
Teresa Lamb, USA: "Religion is not what the world needs. Personal salvation is what the world needs. Religion can be corrupt but a personal relationship with God transforms a person to aspire for good and to share peace and love with others. It is the religious leaders of all religions that can incite hate and isolation en mass. I pray that every individual would examine what they hear and if it is hateful or an incitement and decide to refuse or accept it. Love everyone, including your enemies. I know it's not human nature but with God's help it will happen."
Jack, Canada: "I believe religion is a serious problem and creates unhealthy relations between other religious groups. It's like divide and conquer of the human race."
Thomas Anderson, Summerland, British Columbia, Canada: "Religion is the world's most deadly weapon of mass destruction."
Joseph G Rzeplinski, Canada: "Religious influence both helps and hurts society as it is not homogenous in its influence on individuals and groups. The origins of thought and motivation need be open and well known before teaching and beliefs can be trustworthy and helpful. Bad religion seeks to hide its motivation and goals; good is open and transparent."
Maria Martin, Australia-born in Nederland: "Religion is private just for your self, but it is not for pushing it down someone else's throat."
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Moses with the ten commandments
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Ronald Olsen, California USA: " All religions suffer from each religions far-right".
Chris Harding, Los Angeles: "Who did this study and how accurate is it? Has it been verified scientifically? Can I see a copy of the scientific report? [Note: there's a link at the bottom of the page] I studied economics and it's possible that religion is not at all a determining factor in this study. There are so many other factors involved. There have also been studies done where the US has been compared with the US of the past where religion was a greater part of our society and it turns out that the more that religion has been removed from life in the US the worse the situation has become."
Bruce Berr, Glenview, Illinois, USA: "Religions seem to bring out the worst tribalistic
tendencies in people, especially those that I call 'flat-earth religions' (those originating
during much earlier times when mankind's understanding of our place in the universe was
paltry)."
Frank Reyes, Texas, Southern Tip of Texas, USA: "Religion has done nothing but bad in my opinion. Splitting families, caused holy/religious war, and hindering the advance of both science and medicine. Most of the great health-science related improvements have been at the expense of defying what high-ranking religious leaders expect."
Margot Velez, Oakland, California, USA: "Does the study show whether the belief in God actually leads to a dysfunctional society or could religion be a reaction to it? Current US beliefs emphasize individual responsibility and a pioneer survivor background has also left a significant stamp on the US character. How have these affected either religion or the society? How do different religions compare?"
Joost, The Netherlands: "If people in today's society learned to respect each others cultural heritage and beliefs related to religion there wouldn't be so much arguments, strife, and other nastiness, and perhaps there then would be a greater sense of social equality. Religion wouldn't be bad for society if those who were religious lived their lives peacefully and respectfully as most religious people are lead to do."
David Vogel, Baltimore, Maryland, USA: "I think that organised religion is a drain on modern society. People waste their time, their money, their brains, and their lives on it. Just because something cannot be explained by current science does not mean that some being made it so. I believe religion was 'invented' to serve that purpose long ago. Those who believe so are closed minded, unimaginative and simply unintelligent or misguided early in life."
Willem, The Netherlands: "Though we can think up many bad examples of religious countries, it's the same for non religious countries; why not make an honest comparison in statistics instead of the mere example of the USA? I think this statement comes from someone who wants to believe that religion has a bad influence on human behaviour. Nevertheless, belief in the God of the Bible is the only way to guarantee a safe society."
Tahon Mone, Missouri, USA: "Any religion that requires all others to conform to its beliefs is bad for society."
David Newman, Lincoln, Nebraska, USA: "A professed belief in anything, religion or otherwise, is worthless without a changed heart that comes only from God and His Son Jesus. If you have that, you will have a better chance of leading a good life, sacrificing for others' good. If you don't have that life-changing relationship with the Son of God, you are accordingly more apt to do stupid, cruel things in the name of your religion and your so-called God. History and current events bear witness to this simple truth."
Brian Little, Portland, Oregon, US: "I feel that organised religious extremism is bad for society. I see that almost all of the really horrific events in world history, from wars, crusades and missionary colonialism to inquisitions and persecutions of advanced-thinking greats (e.g. Galileo), as well as current events, are perpetuated by organized religion. (The Catholic Church, the Muslim religion and George W. Bush are shining examples of what extremism in religion can do.)"
"My question is, however, is the world ready to do without the scaffolding that religion has built for society? Many people are comforted, and therefore live more secure lives because of religions' explanations of the unknown. If organized religions were truly altruistic, they would start to move toward helping their followers to understand and embrace the emerging scientific evidence of our origins, and concentrate on teaching the important things like treating all people, as you would like to be treated, and taking care of those who truly cannot care for themselves."
Mark DeLuca, USA: "This looks like a study that starts with a conclusion, then data is selectively sought to support that conclusion. The United States does not have a single religion. We are 290 million people with thousands of different religions. It is a free society where with plenty of opportunities for bad behaviour. That same freedom creates opportunities for good behaviour as well. If one was truly doing a study to correlate a given behaviour with a religious belief, you would choose a population that shares that belief, not a large religiously diverse population like the entire United States or the entire EU for that matter."
Casey, Portland Oregon, USA: "I can hardly think of a war that wasn't caused to some degree by religious differences. The very fact that a group of people can believe that they are the sole people backed by God cannot be a healthy attitude to have when trying to get along in a society. It is an automatic prejudice that they feel is substantiated by the ultimate authority. I truly believe that mass religion is bad for society. I do, however, believe that individual philosophy/religion is imperative. It simply takes more effort on the part of the citizen."
Michael Biastro, The United States of America, Ohio: "I believe religion is the major cause of hate in the world today. People's beliefs are near impossible to change and most people do not want to hear or will not listen to other people's opinions about such a touchy subject. And if they do they pretty much ignore or consider the other person simply wrong or an infidel. More people have been killed in the name of God than any other reason, in the history of the world. Were does it say in any religion that God wants you to kill for him?"
"At their core, most religions are very similar, they are used to promote 'goodness' for lack of a better term in people. Although religion is mainly used as a form of control, for people who are disenfranchised with the world, who need people to look up to and to tell them what to do. The problem is that most of the people who have this control are not religious or godly at all they all have their own agenda, and probably could care less what the Bible or the Koran really says. They are merely going to use what passages that suit their needs and use it as a spearhead to further their own goals."
Curtis Lacy, USA: "Religions which base their ethics/morals on ancient authority are bad for society. The habit of appealing to tradition is an abdication of responsibility; such decisions should be made and revised as times and societies change. Most of the serious social disagreements are caused by this, witness the debates over abortion, capital punishment, same-sex marriage, deviant sexual behaviour, etc. If people would stop trying to enforce mores established millennia ago, and just live-and-let-live, we could have much more peace."
Gary Brensike, Virgina USA: "It is ridiculous to think that religion is the cause of the problem. There is no religion out there that says it's ok to have sex with random people, murder, abort children, etc. If people are doing these things then they are not really very religious at all. This study is silly, they are putting two facts together randomly, i.e. religion and crime.
Philip Geneste, USA: "Religion is faith, without faith what is life? You have faith that you will wake up after you lay down to sleep; yet what we can't understand (the Big Bang, how life started, where did matter come from) we deny. Yes faith/GOD is good for society."
Chris Nash, United States: "Christianity, if universally practised, would end all wars, abortion, lying, stealing, murder, adultery, dysfunctional homes etc. The problem isn't religion as such, it is the people who are supposed to practice the religion."
Gern Blansden, USA: " Religion is mythology. Its fabricated roots were formed millennia ago to try to either 1) explain what no one understood or 2) to control the masses for the benefit of the few. Society is the natural progression and cooperation of people in a real world with real situations. Not mythology. There's nothing natural about religion except in that people naturally try to find a way to explain mysteries or control others."
"Yes, religion is bad for society. Faith in each other is not. But the way modern religious leaders have warped and skewed faith in each other to become a basis for persecution and discrimination has turned religion into more of a liability for society than an asset. There is nothing religion provides to society that cannot be achieved through faith in each other and an extension of one's own benevolence to others. Throw away the guilt, rules and controls of religion and instil faith and hope in each other and you turn around the state of this world. Open your minds. This world, our society, is not a mythological entity."
Jeffrey L. Wood, Virginia, USA: "Religion has been a source of our morals and ethics. Good or bad I would say good. On reflection we, the human race, have not been doing too bad. The human race needs to reflect more on its past and what we have done to improve on the past. We need some sort of compass to go by and when nothing else works we need to read what they did before."
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